Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Bible Notes Message Board - Header-Sidebar
Bible Notes

"What does the Bible Have to Say About ... ?"

Message Board Rules Bible Questions Contact the Bible Note Writer

Bible Note Quote: "Here I am, like Moses, but much less worthy, on the "backside of the dessert" as it were, and while peering across the apparently barren landscape of my life there is a burning bush that captures my attention and my heart. The fire of the bush corresponds with the fire in my heart and I cannot help but follow... The fire still burns!"
quote from The Fire of God's Word Still Burns! ~ ~ (see former quotes here: Bible Note Quote Archives)

(This quote should be changed periodically. So come back and see another quote soon.)

Purpose: To glorify God and to help souls on the way to Heaven

("Log Out" Image Link)

Important and Recommended Links and etc.

Bible Notes Message Board Links:


(Posting Rules)

"What does the Bible say about...?"

(Post Bible Questions)
"Where in the Bible is...?"
"What do these words mean found in ...?"
(book, chapter & verse)



(Read Only
Reminder Image)


Off-site Links:

Bible Notes for You
(on Facebook)

New Bible Notes Site:
biblenotes4u.org


(church organization website)

Bible Notes Archives

(Hosted at Freegroups.net)


runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

 
Desert Preacher Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

In the beginning God created...
Global user

Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 3
Reply | Quote
Once saved, always saved?


What does the Bible say about eternal security? Someone recently asked me if we can lose our salvation. I loaned him a book on the subject, but it only confused him. What scripture texts give the best answer to this important doctrine.

Desert Preacher
4/Feb/2008, 4:07 pm Link to this post Send Email to Desert Preacher   Send PM to Desert Preacher
 
BibleNote Writer Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

He counted me faithful,
putting me into the ministry.

Global user

Registered: 01-2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 309
Reply | Quote
A Very Important Question


Thank you for the question, Desert Preacher. This is a very excellent question! I am not sure that I have the ability to answer in the best way, but I will do my best.

The Importance of this Question


This question is so very important that I feel it will be necessary to come back more than once to comment further and to share more Scripture references.

Why is it so important? Well, the eternal welfare, the eternal suffering or eternal bliss, eternal life or eternal damnation, of very many souls will hang upon what they really believe about the answer to this question.

If the view is correct that a Christian cannot lose his salvation, then multitudes of professing Christians have to decide further whether they have ever become Christians in the first place, because their lives do not agree with the way the Bible teaches that Christians will live their lives. Also, many Christians then are wasting their time and energy being concerned about something over which they need not be concerned -- the possibilty of losing their salvation.

quote:

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9)



If the view is correct that a Christian can lose his salvation, then multitudes of professing Christians are thinking that their never-dying souls are safe forever, while in reality they have lost, or might yet lose in the future, their salvation experience, and are thus deceived. Then, after having lost their salvation, they will ultimately perish in Hell, unless they are reclaimed (or re-saved).

quote:

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:7-8)



~ ~ ~ Answering the Question ~ ~ ~


From a biblical standpoint, I see at least two primary issues at stake in this question:

1. The Nature of Salvation OR God's Power to Save and to Keep

2. The Nature of Free Will OR Whether a Saved Person's Choices Can Affect his Salvation

On one side, we find the awesome power and wonderful grace of God to save and to save eternally; and, on the other side, we see what part the will of man has in the permanency of this so great a salvation.

I will address the two issues given above and present some Scripture verses/passages which shed light upon them. There are very many Scripture verses which could be used, but I will try to give what I believe to be some of the best ones.

Last edited by BibleNote Writer, 17/Feb/2008, 7:20 pm


---
Sincerely Yours in Christ,
The Bible Note Writer
Bible Notes
written to glorify God
and to help souls
on the way to Heaven.
4/Feb/2008, 10:28 pm Link to this post Send Email to BibleNote Writer   Send PM to BibleNote Writer Blog
 
BibleNote Writer Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

He counted me faithful,
putting me into the ministry.

Global user

Registered: 01-2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 309
Reply | Quote
1. The Nature of Salvation, OR God's Power to Save and to Keep


1. The Nature of Salvation, OR God's Power to Save and to Keep


There is an abundance of Scripture which emphasizes God's power, His power to save, His power to keep, and His power and faithfulness to fulfill all His promises. I will here present several Scripture verses which show the nature of salvation and God's power to save and to keep His children. I would emphasize that theses verses all deal with what God Himself is able to do, willing to do, has promised to do and really does do for those He saves. These references are mostly about God's side of the relationship. However, some also touch upon the choices we have with our free will (especially the passage n Romans chapter 6).

In the following passage, the epistle of Jude shows us God's ability to keep from falling those that have Him as their Saviour and to carry them safely into the presence of His glory. This definitely teaches that God can save us eternally!

quote:

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. (Jude 1:24-25)



The word faultless means unblemished, faultless, unblameable, and without blame. I find it interesting that many want to present this idea as an "imputed" or supposed righteousness or holiness rather than an actual or imparted righteousness or holiness.

quote:

That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. (Luk 1:74-75)


The above verses show how that God can really, truly deliver us out of the hand of our enemies for the very purpose of actually serving Him here on earth In holiness and righteousness. The verse points out that this living of our lives is done before Hm or before God. Now, if The all-knowing and all-seeing God sees that we are living holy and righteous lives, then it must be for real. God cannot be fooled.

Referring to Jesus Christ our Savior, the epistle to the Hebrews states the following:

quote:

But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Heb 7:24-25)


The word uttermost here indicates a full, or entire salvation. Jesus is able to save them completely who come unto God by Him!

The following passage of Scripture is very clear about how powerfully God delivers a soul from sin and enables him to live rigtheously:

quote:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 6:14-23)



Again, we se here the idea of eternal life, which shows the eternal nature of salvation and the plan that God has for all saved souls to continue into eternity without losing their salvation.

Here is another passage of Scripture showing how the blood of Jesus Christ is able to cleanse the soul from sin and that He will return to claim His children without sin unto salvation:

quote:

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? ... And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
(Heb 9:14, 22-28)



I could go on and on quoting various passages showing how great is God's power to save and to keep, but I beleive this is sufficient for now. It is very important that we consider the other side of this savlation experience -- the other side of the relationship between God, our Savior, and the soul that is saved from sin to serve Him.

Last edited by BibleNote Writer, 18/Feb/2008, 4:51 am


---
Sincerely Yours in Christ,
The Bible Note Writer
Bible Notes
written to glorify God
and to help souls
on the way to Heaven.
11/Feb/2008, 9:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to BibleNote Writer   Send PM to BibleNote Writer Blog
 
BibleNote Writer Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

He counted me faithful,
putting me into the ministry.

Global user

Registered: 01-2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 309
Reply | Quote
2. The Nature of Free Will OR Whether a Saved Person's Choices Can Affect his Salvation


2. The Nature of Free Will OR Whether a Saved Person's Choices Can Affect his Salvation


I will first give one passage of Scripture and comment upon portions of it. I may give more Scripture references later, but this first one I find very helpful.

The Scripture passage that I find to be one of the most clear on this subject is found in ]2 Peter Chapter 2. I recommend reading the whole chapter to get the whole context, but I will be quoting here from the latter part of the chapter.

I would like to point out that there are two different groups of people described in the latter portion of 2 Peter Chapter 2. There is the group of very wicked people who try to influence, to persuade, to allure the other group away from God and righteousness and back into the sinful corruption of the world. Then there is the group of people who have been delivered out of the corruption of the world and are being persuaded to go back to it.

It is this second group of people that presents to us a remarkably clear answer to this very important question. I will, therefore, attempt to focus our attention upon the second group and to show what the Bible says about them.

quote:

These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest: to whom the mist of darkness is reserved forever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
(2 Peter 2:17-18)



In these two verses, we see at least three very important things: the final destination of the wicked, the clean escape of the saved, and the allurement to sin. Then, I will present a fourth important idea a little further down in the passage: the worst case scenario.


1. The Destination of the Wicked --the "first group" I mentioned above (the very wicked people who definitely are NOT saved)

to whom the mist of darkness is reserved forever speaks of an eternal punishment, an eternal separation from God.

The destination of the wicked is clearly taught throughout the entire context of the Bible. Those who are not saved from sin will utterly perish. They will find their place in the lake which burneth with fire and brimestone. For, the wicked shall be turned into hell... (Psalm 9:17).


2. The Clean Escape of the Saved

The second group in this passage of Scripture are clearly the saved people, the Christians. For of whom else could it be said that they have clean escaped from them who live in error? In fact, this declaration of Scripture goes against the theology of many people today, because clean escaped means to "certainly escape", to "escape indeed", or "to escape of a truth".

The real clincher of this concept is the fact that the verse states that they were clean escaped. This could not refer to the future time of eternal bliss, because there will be no wicked ones there to tempt the saints in heaven.

quote:

Referring to the city of God: And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
(Rev 21:27)



This second group, which I will called the saved people or the saints, are definitely and clearly saved from or out of the life of sin. There is a line of separation between the saved and the wicked. One cannot be both wicked and saved at the same time.

To further prove this important point, I quote from 1 Corinthians 6:9-11:

quote:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
(1Co 6:9-11)



The apostle Paul declares that the Christians to whom he was writing had been in the past -- such were some of you -- I repeat had been practicing sinners, wicked people. But, he makes it very clear that their relationship with God put an end to such an existance of wickedness. The passage also clearly teaches that those who do such things would by no means (apart from delverance from them) inherit the kingdom of God!

So the line is Scripturally drawn between the saved and the wicked. We are either wicked -- bound by our sin -- or we are saved -- delivered from our sin. We are either living for God a righteous, holy life, or we are living for the Devil a sinful, wicked life. Certainly, there are degrees of heights and depths in these two realms of experience, but we cannot at the same time be on both sides of such a line of definite demarcation.


3. The Allurement to Sin

This is a very scary thought in the light of having an eternal soul that has been saved from sin. The very idea that someone would try to entice the saved one back into the wicked life from whence they had escaped is astonishing, but it shows how terribly wicked the wicked (and the Devil) can be.

Peter wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the saved could be allured back into the very sin from which they had been delivered. This in itself shows by implication that the saved people still have the freedom to choose between salvation and sin. If this is not enough for the reader to realize how much God respects the very freedom of will that He created us to exercise, then please read on, because this passage of Scripture does NOT stop with an implied possibility.

4. The Worst Case Scenario

Up to this point we have seen that Peter was beginning to imply at least that the saved could actually be allured away from their salvation and choose to leave it for the allurements of sin. Now, though, he delves into the actuality -- the reality -- of those same saved people giving in to the temptation and forsaking the way of salvation to return to the sin they had once forsaken.

quote:

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21)



This is quite a chunk of Scripture to swallow. I will try to break it down a bit, but it all goes together.

Again, Peter repeats the idea that these saved people had escaped the pollutions of the world. How did they escape? through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

He then asserts without any uncertain discussion that IF they then become again entangled in the pollutions of the world AND overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The beginning here is obviously --- by reading the context -- the state in which they were BEFORE they had escaped.

This passage clearly teaches that their is a condition worse than not having been saved. If it were true that one could NOT lose his salvation by his own choice -- by his free will -- then the condition of never having escaped sin would be worse than the case of the least of all the saved souls. But, this passage teaches that there is a case worst yet: having escaped and then becoming entrapped (entangled) once again.

The only escape from sin and hell is the wonderful salvation that God offers through His Son Jesus Christ. The only way out of the experience of salvation is to once again become entangled in sin. Now, the choice is yours. Yes, we have free will. Yes, God can truly save us and keep us. Yes, it is a cooperative effort between the soul and the Savior. God will not keep us against our will.

Lest anyone think I am teaching a fatalistic "one chance only to be saved", I am not. If a saved person falls into sin (by his own choice to commit sin), there is hope to be restored, and the sooner the better.

Hear the inspired words of John the beloved apostle:

quote:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (1 John 2:1-3)



If the saved person does give in to sin, God will forgive IF that person (now a sinner by act) will repent of his sin and return to the God of his salvation. God knew that many would fall and fail, and He made provision for them to return to the Father's house and to once again choose to live for the Lord, turning their back upon sin and the world.

The same sacrifice for sin, Jesus' death on the cross, that provides for our salvation from sin initially, continues to provide salvation whenever the soul truly forsakes sin and trusts in the Savior.

quote:

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)



Last edited by BibleNote Writer, 18/Feb/2008, 5:22 am


---
Sincerely Yours in Christ,
The Bible Note Writer
Bible Notes
written to glorify God
and to help souls
on the way to Heaven.
11/Feb/2008, 9:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to BibleNote Writer   Send PM to BibleNote Writer Blog
 
Desert Preacher Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

In the beginning God created...
Global user

Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 3
Reply | Quote
Re: Once saved, always saved?


Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I am in agreement with the doctrine of the free will of man and conditional security. Sometimes though, it is difficult for me to express why I believe a certain way. In doing my own study on this subject, I find that Christians in general hold a weak conception of sin. The scripture in Romans 6 is very clear in showing that who you yield to or obey then that is whom you are servant to. There also is confusion over what is obedience and what is called works. Some would classify obedience as works but the scripture says that if we keeps His commands then are we His disciples.

Thanks again, Desert Preacher
19/Feb/2008, 3:33 pm Link to this post Send Email to Desert Preacher   Send PM to Desert Preacher
 


Add a reply



You are not logged in (login)
Back To Top

Back To Top